Megaregions

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Megaregions

Diva Canto
Hi everyone,

We're cleaning up a few things in the code, and came across megaregions.
Now that we have varregions, there is a strong will among core devs to
remove support for megaregions, because they were just a temporary hack
for when viewers didn't understand spaces greater than 256m. Now that
they do, the hack seems unnecessary moving forward. Megaregions
implementation is contrived and makes a lot code unnecessarily complicated.

Any objections to its removal?

Diva
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Re: Megaregions

Trinity
KILL IT! KILL IT WITH FIRE!

Trinity93

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 5:00 PM, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi everyone,

We're cleaning up a few things in the code, and came across megaregions. Now that we have varregions, there is a strong will among core devs to remove support for megaregions, because they were just a temporary hack for when viewers didn't understand spaces greater than 256m. Now that they do, the hack seems unnecessary moving forward. Megaregions implementation is contrived and makes a lot code unnecessarily complicated.

Any objections to its removal?

Diva
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Re: Megaregions

R.Gunther
Yes, am fine with it when it get removed. it's not good.
But i expect some people that get sad because the still say megaregions work betetr and use that.

But Kill it ! :)

On 2015-09-05 00:29, Trinity wrote:
KILL IT! KILL IT WITH FIRE!

Trinity93

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 5:00 PM, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi everyone,

We're cleaning up a few things in the code, and came across megaregions. Now that we have varregions, there is a strong will among core devs to remove support for megaregions, because they were just a temporary hack for when viewers didn't understand spaces greater than 256m. Now that they do, the hack seems unnecessary moving forward. Megaregions implementation is contrived and makes a lot code unnecessarily complicated.

Any objections to its removal?

Diva
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Re: Megaregions

Nicky Perian
Diva,
I don't have any technical input but, I don't think a complete input cannot be provided by posting this at the beginning of a 3 day holiday weekend in the US. Hopefully, a decision will not be made over this weekend.
Nicky

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 5:34 PM, R.Gunther <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes, am fine with it when it get removed. it's not good.
But i expect some people that get sad because the still say megaregions work betetr and use that.

But Kill it ! :)


On 2015-09-05 00:29, Trinity wrote:
KILL IT! KILL IT WITH FIRE!

Trinity93

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 5:00 PM, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi everyone,

We're cleaning up a few things in the code, and came across megaregions. Now that we have varregions, there is a strong will among core devs to remove support for megaregions, because they were just a temporary hack for when viewers didn't understand spaces greater than 256m. Now that they do, the hack seems unnecessary moving forward. Megaregions implementation is contrived and makes a lot code unnecessarily complicated.

Any objections to its removal?

Diva
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Re: Megaregions

Diva Canto
Yeah, don't worry, there's no rush. We'll wait for people's input. Eventually support for megaregions will be dropped. The question is whether to drop it on the next release or wait a few more months.

On 9/4/2015 4:29 PM, Nicky Perian wrote:
Diva,
I don't have any technical input but, I don't think a complete input cannot be provided by posting this at the beginning of a 3 day holiday weekend in the US. Hopefully, a decision will not be made over this weekend.
Nicky

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 5:34 PM, R.Gunther <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes, am fine with it when it get removed. it's not good.
But i expect some people that get sad because the still say megaregions work betetr and use that.

But Kill it ! :)


On 2015-09-05 00:29, Trinity wrote:
KILL IT! KILL IT WITH FIRE!

Trinity93

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 5:00 PM, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi everyone,

We're cleaning up a few things in the code, and came across megaregions. Now that we have varregions, there is a strong will among core devs to remove support for megaregions, because they were just a temporary hack for when viewers didn't understand spaces greater than 256m. Now that they do, the hack seems unnecessary moving forward. Megaregions implementation is contrived and makes a lot code unnecessarily complicated.

Any objections to its removal?

Diva
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Re: Megaregions

Oren Hurvitz
Strong -1.

Varregions don't support ODE, therefore megaregions must remain.

It's important to keep support for ODE because it has significant benefits over BulletSim:

Most importantly, ODE has consistently good performance, whereas BulletSim sometimes gets into pathological states where it consumes extremely high CPU and makes every avatar in the simulator freeze in place. I reported this bug here: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6789#c26617 , but it's still happening (I checked again last month). This is a huge problem and it's the reason Kitely still uses ODE as the default physics engine. (We provide BulletSim as an option, but we warn users against using it.)

Second, BulletSim has some strange behavior that ODE doesn't. E.g., in BulletSim my avatar can walk vertically up some large prims! That doesn't happen with ODE.

Third, some users prefer ODE's behavior, and they have many scripts that are fine-tuned for ODE. Switching to BulletSim would kill their scripts.

If Varregions supported ODE then it would be ok to eliminate megaregions. But until that happens, megaregions are important and need to remain.

Oren


On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 2:35 AM, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yeah, don't worry, there's no rush. We'll wait for people's input. Eventually support for megaregions will be dropped. The question is whether to drop it on the next release or wait a few more months.


On 9/4/2015 4:29 PM, Nicky Perian wrote:
Diva,
I don't have any technical input but, I don't think a complete input cannot be provided by posting this at the beginning of a 3 day holiday weekend in the US. Hopefully, a decision will not be made over this weekend.
Nicky

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 5:34 PM, R.Gunther <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes, am fine with it when it get removed. it's not good.
But i expect some people that get sad because the still say megaregions work betetr and use that.

But Kill it ! :)


On 2015-09-05 00:29, Trinity wrote:
KILL IT! KILL IT WITH FIRE!

Trinity93

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 5:00 PM, Diva Canto <[hidden email][hidden email]> wrote:
Hi everyone,

We're cleaning up a few things in the code, and came across megaregions. Now that we have varregions, there is a strong will among core devs to remove support for megaregions, because they were just a temporary hack for when viewers didn't understand spaces greater than 256m. Now that they do, the hack seems unnecessary moving forward. Megaregions implementation is contrived and makes a lot code unnecessarily complicated.

Any objections to its removal?

Diva
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Oren Hurvitz
VP R&D
Kitely Ltd.

Email: [hidden email][hidden email]

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Re: Megaregions

Michael Emory Cerquoni

I said the same thing on IRC Oren i also thing that ODE must support var before this happens.

On Sep 5, 2015 1:37 AM, "Oren Hurvitz" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Strong -1.

Varregions don't support ODE, therefore megaregions must remain.

It's important to keep support for ODE because it has significant benefits over BulletSim:

Most importantly, ODE has consistently good performance, whereas BulletSim sometimes gets into pathological states where it consumes extremely high CPU and makes every avatar in the simulator freeze in place. I reported this bug here: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6789#c26617 , but it's still happening (I checked again last month). This is a huge problem and it's the reason Kitely still uses ODE as the default physics engine. (We provide BulletSim as an option, but we warn users against using it.)

Second, BulletSim has some strange behavior that ODE doesn't. E.g., in BulletSim my avatar can walk vertically up some large prims! That doesn't happen with ODE.

Third, some users prefer ODE's behavior, and they have many scripts that are fine-tuned for ODE. Switching to BulletSim would kill their scripts.

If Varregions supported ODE then it would be ok to eliminate megaregions. But until that happens, megaregions are important and need to remain.

Oren


On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 2:35 AM, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yeah, don't worry, there's no rush. We'll wait for people's input. Eventually support for megaregions will be dropped. The question is whether to drop it on the next release or wait a few more months.


On 9/4/2015 4:29 PM, Nicky Perian wrote:
Diva,
I don't have any technical input but, I don't think a complete input cannot be provided by posting this at the beginning of a 3 day holiday weekend in the US. Hopefully, a decision will not be made over this weekend.
Nicky

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 5:34 PM, R.Gunther <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes, am fine with it when it get removed. it's not good.
But i expect some people that get sad because the still say megaregions work betetr and use that.

But Kill it ! :)


On 2015-09-05 00:29, Trinity wrote:
KILL IT! KILL IT WITH FIRE!

Trinity93

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 5:00 PM, Diva Canto <[hidden email][hidden email]> wrote:
Hi everyone,

We're cleaning up a few things in the code, and came across megaregions. Now that we have varregions, there is a strong will among core devs to remove support for megaregions, because they were just a temporary hack for when viewers didn't understand spaces greater than 256m. Now that they do, the hack seems unnecessary moving forward. Megaregions implementation is contrived and makes a lot code unnecessarily complicated.

Any objections to its removal?

Diva
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Oren Hurvitz
VP R&D
Kitely Ltd.

Email: [hidden email][hidden email]

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Re: Megaregions

Diva Canto
In reply to this post by Oren Hurvitz
Good point. We'll make ODE understand vars.

On 9/4/2015 10:36 PM, Oren Hurvitz wrote:
Strong -1.

Varregions don't support ODE, therefore megaregions must remain.

It's important to keep support for ODE because it has significant benefits over BulletSim:

Most importantly, ODE has consistently good performance, whereas BulletSim sometimes gets into pathological states where it consumes extremely high CPU and makes every avatar in the simulator freeze in place. I reported this bug here: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6789#c26617 , but it's still happening (I checked again last month). This is a huge problem and it's the reason Kitely still uses ODE as the default physics engine. (We provide BulletSim as an option, but we warn users against using it.)

Second, BulletSim has some strange behavior that ODE doesn't. E.g., in BulletSim my avatar can walk vertically up some large prims! That doesn't happen with ODE.

Third, some users prefer ODE's behavior, and they have many scripts that are fine-tuned for ODE. Switching to BulletSim would kill their scripts.

If Varregions supported ODE then it would be ok to eliminate megaregions. But until that happens, megaregions are important and need to remain.

Oren


On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 2:35 AM, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yeah, don't worry, there's no rush. We'll wait for people's input. Eventually support for megaregions will be dropped. The question is whether to drop it on the next release or wait a few more months.


On 9/4/2015 4:29 PM, Nicky Perian wrote:
Diva,
I don't have any technical input but, I don't think a complete input cannot be provided by posting this at the beginning of a 3 day holiday weekend in the US. Hopefully, a decision will not be made over this weekend.
Nicky

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 5:34 PM, R.Gunther <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes, am fine with it when it get removed. it's not good.
But i expect some people that get sad because the still say megaregions work betetr and use that.

But Kill it ! :)


On 2015-09-05 00:29, Trinity wrote:
KILL IT! KILL IT WITH FIRE!

Trinity93

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 5:00 PM, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi everyone,

We're cleaning up a few things in the code, and came across megaregions. Now that we have varregions, there is a strong will among core devs to remove support for megaregions, because they were just a temporary hack for when viewers didn't understand spaces greater than 256m. Now that they do, the hack seems unnecessary moving forward. Megaregions implementation is contrived and makes a lot code unnecessarily complicated.

Any objections to its removal?

Diva
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VP R&D
Kitely Ltd.

Email: [hidden email]


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Re: Megaregions

M.E. Verhagen
yes the bullet does not work well on an opensim osx install, it leaks memory. 
ode for var +1

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Re: Megaregions

Gavin Hird
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
Bullet on OS X does not leak memory any more That was fixed by Robert early last fall. Please make sure you have updated dylibs. 



On 5. sep. 2015, at 16.45, M.E. Verhagen [via opensim-dev] <[hidden email]> wrote:

yes the bullet does not work well on an opensim osx install, it leaks memory. 
ode for var +1

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Re: Megaregions

Diva Canto
In reply to this post by Oren Hurvitz
Oren, Ubit submitted a patch that makes ODE support varregions. It's been pushed. Initial tests show that it works fine, but please check that it works in your environments.


On 9/4/2015 10:36 PM, Oren Hurvitz wrote:
Strong -1.

Varregions don't support ODE, therefore megaregions must remain.

It's important to keep support for ODE because it has significant benefits over BulletSim:

Most importantly, ODE has consistently good performance, whereas BulletSim sometimes gets into pathological states where it consumes extremely high CPU and makes every avatar in the simulator freeze in place. I reported this bug here: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6789#c26617 , but it's still happening (I checked again last month). This is a huge problem and it's the reason Kitely still uses ODE as the default physics engine. (We provide BulletSim as an option, but we warn users against using it.)

Second, BulletSim has some strange behavior that ODE doesn't. E.g., in BulletSim my avatar can walk vertically up some large prims! That doesn't happen with ODE.

Third, some users prefer ODE's behavior, and they have many scripts that are fine-tuned for ODE. Switching to BulletSim would kill their scripts.

If Varregions supported ODE then it would be ok to eliminate megaregions. But until that happens, megaregions are important and need to remain.

Oren


On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 2:35 AM, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yeah, don't worry, there's no rush. We'll wait for people's input. Eventually support for megaregions will be dropped. The question is whether to drop it on the next release or wait a few more months.


On 9/4/2015 4:29 PM, Nicky Perian wrote:
Diva,
I don't have any technical input but, I don't think a complete input cannot be provided by posting this at the beginning of a 3 day holiday weekend in the US. Hopefully, a decision will not be made over this weekend.
Nicky

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 5:34 PM, R.Gunther <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes, am fine with it when it get removed. it's not good.
But i expect some people that get sad because the still say megaregions work betetr and use that.

But Kill it ! :)


On 2015-09-05 00:29, Trinity wrote:
KILL IT! KILL IT WITH FIRE!

Trinity93

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 5:00 PM, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi everyone,

We're cleaning up a few things in the code, and came across megaregions. Now that we have varregions, there is a strong will among core devs to remove support for megaregions, because they were just a temporary hack for when viewers didn't understand spaces greater than 256m. Now that they do, the hack seems unnecessary moving forward. Megaregions implementation is contrived and makes a lot code unnecessarily complicated.

Any objections to its removal?

Diva
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VP R&D
Kitely Ltd.

Email: [hidden email]


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Re: Megaregions

Oren Hurvitz
Thanks, I will.

Oren

On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 8:33 PM, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
Oren, Ubit submitted a patch that makes ODE support varregions. It's been pushed. Initial tests show that it works fine, but please check that it works in your environments.


On 9/4/2015 10:36 PM, Oren Hurvitz wrote:
Strong -1.

Varregions don't support ODE, therefore megaregions must remain.

It's important to keep support for ODE because it has significant benefits over BulletSim:

Most importantly, ODE has consistently good performance, whereas BulletSim sometimes gets into pathological states where it consumes extremely high CPU and makes every avatar in the simulator freeze in place. I reported this bug here: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=6789#c26617 , but it's still happening (I checked again last month). This is a huge problem and it's the reason Kitely still uses ODE as the default physics engine. (We provide BulletSim as an option, but we warn users against using it.)

Second, BulletSim has some strange behavior that ODE doesn't. E.g., in BulletSim my avatar can walk vertically up some large prims! That doesn't happen with ODE.

Third, some users prefer ODE's behavior, and they have many scripts that are fine-tuned for ODE. Switching to BulletSim would kill their scripts.

If Varregions supported ODE then it would be ok to eliminate megaregions. But until that happens, megaregions are important and need to remain.

Oren


On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 2:35 AM, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yeah, don't worry, there's no rush. We'll wait for people's input. Eventually support for megaregions will be dropped. The question is whether to drop it on the next release or wait a few more months.


On 9/4/2015 4:29 PM, Nicky Perian wrote:
Diva,
I don't have any technical input but, I don't think a complete input cannot be provided by posting this at the beginning of a 3 day holiday weekend in the US. Hopefully, a decision will not be made over this weekend.
Nicky

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 5:34 PM, R.Gunther <[hidden email][hidden email]> wrote:
Yes, am fine with it when it get removed. it's not good.
But i expect some people that get sad because the still say megaregions work betetr and use that.

But Kill it ! :)


On 2015-09-05 00:29, Trinity wrote:
KILL IT! KILL IT WITH FIRE!

Trinity93

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 5:00 PM, Diva Canto <[hidden email][hidden email]> wrote:
Hi everyone,

We're cleaning up a few things in the code, and came across megaregions. Now that we have varregions, there is a strong will among core devs to remove support for megaregions, because they were just a temporary hack for when viewers didn't understand spaces greater than 256m. Now that they do, the hack seems unnecessary moving forward. Megaregions implementation is contrived and makes a lot code unnecessarily complicated.

Any objections to its removal?

Diva
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Kitely Ltd.

Email: [hidden email]


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Oren Hurvitz
VP R&D
Kitely Ltd.

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Re: Megaregions

Kevin Cozens
In reply to this post by Diva Canto
On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 5:00 PM, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
> We're cleaning up a few things in the code, and came across  > megaregions. Now that we have varregions, there is a strong will > among
core devs to remove support for megaregions, because they were > just a
temporary hack for when viewers didn't understand spaces > greater than 256m.

Sounds like a good time to remove megaregions code. If there are things that
aren't working as well in vars as they are in megas this could provide the
incentive to fix the var related issues.

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Re: Megaregions

Michel Beauregard
On thing that work well with Mega is putting them side by side even without same dimensions. They also  cohexist properly with regular regions.

GiMiSa

--------------------------------------------
En date de : Dim, 6.9.15, Kevin Cozens <[hidden email]> a écrit :

 Objet : Re: [Opensim-dev] Megaregions
 À : [hidden email]
 Date: dimanche 6 septembre 2015 20 h 18
 
 On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at
 5:00 PM, Diva Canto <[hidden email]>
 wrote:
 > We're cleaning up a few
 things in the code, and came across  > megaregions. Now
 that we have varregions, there is a strong will > among
 
 core devs to remove support for
 megaregions, because they were > just a
 temporary hack for when viewers didn't
 understand spaces > greater than 256m.
 
 Sounds like a good time to
 remove megaregions code. If there are things that
 aren't working as well in vars as they are
 in megas this could provide the
 incentive
 to fix the var related issues.
 
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Re: Script

Michel Beauregard
In reply to this post by Kevin Cozens
Hello
thanks for reading.

All scripts not responding for two day  in one region like if putting in console  command script stop or in debug estat window deseable script.
Any idea where I could look to find the source of this situation.
I restarted region and computer , checked log , try in console command script start , script resume . Nothing that I know works .  Dont see a thing that would explain that or  where to look for .

Guy this was working fine two days ago. There is no new build by me and none allowed by visitor ,  no change in the machine  only visitors. I can back off everything to two days ago and see if the problem deseapers but wonder if anyone else ever experience something like that . If so what was its cause / solution.  There must be something simple to stop a whole simulator from running its script that I should be able to see in log or some debuging setting.

Thanks

A few facts:

3d.gimisa.ca:9000 is the grid of 10 regions running under robust stable 0.8.1.
Robust and simulators are all serverd from same machine  ubuntu 14.04.
Simulator are running from same set of files using alternate config ini.
Except for gimisa5 the trouble region , anything else is running normaly.
gimisa5 is the only region on its simulator.

In the trouble region the script will save normaly with save script message  appearing in both script window and blue warning. Running tag is normal on script window but no respons from script and that is for any script in the region.

GiMiSa

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Re: Megaregions

Shy Robbiani
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In reply to this post by Diva Canto
As a reason to stick with Megaregions it has been mentioned by a user at Metropolis that Varregions don't support multiple terrain textures. As an example, I have a group of single regions myself, ideal for a Varregion, but I use three sets of terrain textures for different themes: water, nordic mountains/woods and sandy beaches or desert.
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