Re: Opensim-dev Digest, Vol 13, Issue 34

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Re: Opensim-dev Digest, Vol 13, Issue 34

Seth Nygard
I am in full support of showing the actual numbers for all system metrics.  It is long past time we dispensed with trying to be like SL when we are not in so many ways already.

What I would suggest as a solution that should fit everyone's needs.  How about we add a scaling factor that can be set in the INI file.  This can be set to yield the current inflated numbers by default, but can also be set to 1 for anyone wanting real numbers.

-Seth

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:50 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Send Opensim-dev mailing list submissions to
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To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Opensim-dev digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED) (Michael Emory Cerquoni)
   2. Re: MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED) (Michael Emory Cerquoni)
   3. Re: MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED) (Michael Emory Cerquoni)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 17:40:39 -0400
From: Michael Emory Cerquoni <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
Message-ID:
        <CAF5=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the white
space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later though. I
hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to really make
sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps before this changes
the core code, so anyone who has the time please do test this and let us
know if you notice anything change or break, thanks!

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces.  The patch should still
> apply and work.  We follows the open simulator patch creation guidance
> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want this
> done -
> let us know.  Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings.
>
> v/r -douglas
>
> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
> Science and Technology Manager
> Virtual World Strategic Applications
> U.S. Army Research Lab
> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC)
> (c) <a href="tel:%28407%29%20242-0209" value="+14072420209">(407) 242-0209
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael Emory
> Cerquoni
> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted
>
> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for testing,
> thanks
> guys!
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>
>         Opensim Devs
>
>         Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission from
> project
> MOSES.  Thanks.
>
>         --
>         Michael Heilmann
>         Research Associate
>         Institute for Simulation and Training
>         University of Central Florida
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         Opensim-dev mailing list
>         [hidden email]
>         http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> <blockedhttp://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>
> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>
>


--
Michael Emory Cerquoni
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 17:42:52 -0400
From: Michael Emory Cerquoni <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
Message-ID:
        <CAF5=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

ok so just so I understand we should now see this actually just display
11fps? Personally I think this is a bad idea, alot of people may be using
monitoring apps and scripts that look for low fps and restart the region,
we would basically be forcing everyone to rewrite a lot of code to
accommodate a singular purpose? Not quite sure how this improves the
project as a whole.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the
> white space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later
> though. I hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to
> really make sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps before
> this changes the core code, so anyone who has the time please do test this
> and let us know if you notice anything change or break, thanks!
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>> Caveats: NONE
>>
>> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces.  The patch should
>> still
>> apply and work.  We follows the open simulator patch creation guidance
>> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want this
>> done -
>> let us know.  Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings.
>>
>> v/r -douglas
>>
>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
>> Science and Technology Manager
>> Virtual World Strategic Applications
>> U.S. Army Research Lab
>> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC)
>> (c) <a href="tel:%28407%29%20242-0209" value="+14072420209">(407) 242-0209
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael Emory
>> Cerquoni
>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted
>>
>> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for testing,
>> thanks
>> guys!
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>         Opensim Devs
>>
>>         Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission from
>> project
>> MOSES.  Thanks.
>>
>>         --
>>         Michael Heilmann
>>         Research Associate
>>         Institute for Simulation and Training
>>         University of Central Florida
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         Opensim-dev mailing list
>>         [hidden email]
>>         http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>> <blockedhttp://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>>
>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>> Caveats: NONE
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>



--
Michael Emory Cerquoni
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 17:50:32 -0400
From: Michael Emory Cerquoni <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
Message-ID:
        <CAF5=rqWbXjfgv5Au9VDa+_b8AsvY4NpL2CFxY=4L=ncE=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I have to admit I am a bit bewildered at this patch, what is the actual
benefit of reporting the actual numbers if it has the potential to break so
much?  Can we rethink this and have this be a variable that can be
configured for different applications, I really hate the idea of forcing
this change on everyone without much better ability to explain why this is
so important, having it just go from 55fps to 11fps is going to freak
people out and cause a lot of problems for the core development support
teams.  To me it makes more sense to make the multiplication factor
configurable so that if a certain grid wants to run at normal stats they
can set the modifier to 1.0 if a certain grid wants to be an analogue of
second life they can change the modifier to 5.0, but if forcing everyone to
use this is the only option I have to say my vote is -1 for inclusion at
this point, unless someone can really convince me why this is so important
otherwise.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> ok so just so I understand we should now see this actually just display
> 11fps? Personally I think this is a bad idea, alot of people may be using
> monitoring apps and scripts that look for low fps and restart the region,
> we would basically be forcing everyone to rewrite a lot of code to
> accommodate a singular purpose? Not quite sure how this improves the
> project as a whole.
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the
>> white space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later
>> though. I hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to
>> really make sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps before
>> this changes the core code, so anyone who has the time please do test this
>> and let us know if you notice anything change or break, thanks!
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>>> Caveats: NONE
>>>
>>> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces.  The patch should
>>> still
>>> apply and work.  We follows the open simulator patch creation guidance
>>> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want this
>>> done -
>>> let us know.  Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings.
>>>
>>> v/r -douglas
>>>
>>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
>>> Science and Technology Manager
>>> Virtual World Strategic Applications
>>> U.S. Army Research Lab
>>> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC)
>>> (c) <a href="tel:%28407%29%20242-0209" value="+14072420209">(407) 242-0209
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [hidden email]
>>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael
>>> Emory
>>> Cerquoni
>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted
>>>
>>> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for testing,
>>> thanks
>>> guys!
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>         Opensim Devs
>>>
>>>         Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission from
>>> project
>>> MOSES.  Thanks.
>>>
>>>         --
>>>         Michael Heilmann
>>>         Research Associate
>>>         Institute for Simulation and Training
>>>         University of Central Florida
>>>
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>         Opensim-dev mailing list
>>>         [hidden email]
>>>         http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>> <blockedhttp://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>>>
>>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>>> Caveats: NONE
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>



--
Michael Emory Cerquoni
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------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Opensim-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev


End of Opensim-dev Digest, Vol 13, Issue 34
*******************************************


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Re: Opensim-dev Digest, Vol 13, Issue 34

Michael Emory Cerquoni
I am all for diverging away from SL, but not at the expense of breaking existing systems or content, because ultimately its the core development team who has to deal with the fall out of that.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:57 PM, Seth Nygard <[hidden email]> wrote:
I am in full support of showing the actual numbers for all system metrics.  It is long past time we dispensed with trying to be like SL when we are not in so many ways already.

What I would suggest as a solution that should fit everyone's needs.  How about we add a scaling factor that can be set in the INI file.  This can be set to yield the current inflated numbers by default, but can also be set to 1 for anyone wanting real numbers.

-Seth

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:50 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Send Opensim-dev mailing list submissions to
        [hidden email]

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
        http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
        [hidden email]

You can reach the person managing the list at
        [hidden email]

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Opensim-dev digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED) (Michael Emory Cerquoni)
   2. Re: MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED) (Michael Emory Cerquoni)
   3. Re: MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED) (Michael Emory Cerquoni)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 17:40:39 -0400
From: Michael Emory Cerquoni <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
Message-ID:
        <CAF5=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the white
space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later though. I
hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to really make
sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps before this changes
the core code, so anyone who has the time please do test this and let us
know if you notice anything change or break, thanks!

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces.  The patch should still
> apply and work.  We follows the open simulator patch creation guidance
> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want this
> done -
> let us know.  Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings.
>
> v/r -douglas
>
> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
> Science and Technology Manager
> Virtual World Strategic Applications
> U.S. Army Research Lab
> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC)
> (c) <a href="tel:%28407%29%20242-0209" value="+14072420209" target="_blank">(407) 242-0209
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael Emory
> Cerquoni
> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted
>
> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for testing,
> thanks
> guys!
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>
>         Opensim Devs
>
>         Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission from
> project
> MOSES.  Thanks.
>
>         --
>         Michael Heilmann
>         Research Associate
>         Institute for Simulation and Training
>         University of Central Florida
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         Opensim-dev mailing list
>         [hidden email]
>         http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> <blockedhttp://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>
> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>
>


--
Michael Emory Cerquoni
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 17:42:52 -0400
From: Michael Emory Cerquoni <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
Message-ID:
        <CAF5=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

ok so just so I understand we should now see this actually just display
11fps? Personally I think this is a bad idea, alot of people may be using
monitoring apps and scripts that look for low fps and restart the region,
we would basically be forcing everyone to rewrite a lot of code to
accommodate a singular purpose? Not quite sure how this improves the
project as a whole.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the
> white space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later
> though. I hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to
> really make sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps before
> this changes the core code, so anyone who has the time please do test this
> and let us know if you notice anything change or break, thanks!
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>> Caveats: NONE
>>
>> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces.  The patch should
>> still
>> apply and work.  We follows the open simulator patch creation guidance
>> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want this
>> done -
>> let us know.  Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings.
>>
>> v/r -douglas
>>
>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
>> Science and Technology Manager
>> Virtual World Strategic Applications
>> U.S. Army Research Lab
>> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC)
>> (c) <a href="tel:%28407%29%20242-0209" value="+14072420209" target="_blank">(407) 242-0209
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael Emory
>> Cerquoni
>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted
>>
>> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for testing,
>> thanks
>> guys!
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>         Opensim Devs
>>
>>         Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission from
>> project
>> MOSES.  Thanks.
>>
>>         --
>>         Michael Heilmann
>>         Research Associate
>>         Institute for Simulation and Training
>>         University of Central Florida
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         Opensim-dev mailing list
>>         [hidden email]
>>         http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>> <blockedhttp://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>>
>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>> Caveats: NONE
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>



--
Michael Emory Cerquoni
-------------- next part --------------
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 17:50:32 -0400
From: Michael Emory Cerquoni <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
Message-ID:
        <CAF5=rqWbXjfgv5Au9VDa+_b8AsvY4NpL2CFxY=4L=ncE=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I have to admit I am a bit bewildered at this patch, what is the actual
benefit of reporting the actual numbers if it has the potential to break so
much?  Can we rethink this and have this be a variable that can be
configured for different applications, I really hate the idea of forcing
this change on everyone without much better ability to explain why this is
so important, having it just go from 55fps to 11fps is going to freak
people out and cause a lot of problems for the core development support
teams.  To me it makes more sense to make the multiplication factor
configurable so that if a certain grid wants to run at normal stats they
can set the modifier to 1.0 if a certain grid wants to be an analogue of
second life they can change the modifier to 5.0, but if forcing everyone to
use this is the only option I have to say my vote is -1 for inclusion at
this point, unless someone can really convince me why this is so important
otherwise.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> ok so just so I understand we should now see this actually just display
> 11fps? Personally I think this is a bad idea, alot of people may be using
> monitoring apps and scripts that look for low fps and restart the region,
> we would basically be forcing everyone to rewrite a lot of code to
> accommodate a singular purpose? Not quite sure how this improves the
> project as a whole.
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the
>> white space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later
>> though. I hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to
>> really make sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps before
>> this changes the core code, so anyone who has the time please do test this
>> and let us know if you notice anything change or break, thanks!
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>>> Caveats: NONE
>>>
>>> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces.  The patch should
>>> still
>>> apply and work.  We follows the open simulator patch creation guidance
>>> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want this
>>> done -
>>> let us know.  Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings.
>>>
>>> v/r -douglas
>>>
>>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
>>> Science and Technology Manager
>>> Virtual World Strategic Applications
>>> U.S. Army Research Lab
>>> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC)
>>> (c) <a href="tel:%28407%29%20242-0209" value="+14072420209" target="_blank">(407) 242-0209
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [hidden email]
>>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael
>>> Emory
>>> Cerquoni
>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted
>>>
>>> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for testing,
>>> thanks
>>> guys!
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>         Opensim Devs
>>>
>>>         Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission from
>>> project
>>> MOSES.  Thanks.
>>>
>>>         --
>>>         Michael Heilmann
>>>         Research Associate
>>>         Institute for Simulation and Training
>>>         University of Central Florida
>>>
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>         Opensim-dev mailing list
>>>         [hidden email]
>>>         http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>> <blockedhttp://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>>>
>>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>>> Caveats: NONE
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>



--
Michael Emory Cerquoni
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End of Opensim-dev Digest, Vol 13, Issue 34
*******************************************


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--
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Re: Opensim-dev Digest, Vol 13, Issue 34

Frank Nichols
Then basically we can never diverge away from SL since any divergence is going to break existing scripts that require compatibility. 

If we don't bite the bullet and make the changes, i do believe OS will (has?) stagnate. It seems every time outside resources try to make changes and help we end up back at the argument that too much legacy code will have to be rewritten.  I suggest that we "fork" core, in essence. By this i mean we have a switch in core, SL COMPATIBILITY MODE. switch equals true and it runs the code as it is, switch equals FALSE and it runs a new code base with changes. Default can be true. I then suggest we focus future development on the new branch that is not compatible.

Frank 

Sent from my iPad Air 2

On Apr 24, 2015, at 6:00 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <[hidden email]> wrote:

I am all for diverging away from SL, but not at the expense of breaking existing systems or content, because ultimately its the core development team who has to deal with the fall out of that.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:57 PM, Seth Nygard <[hidden email]> wrote:
I am in full support of showing the actual numbers for all system metrics.  It is long past time we dispensed with trying to be like SL when we are not in so many ways already.

What I would suggest as a solution that should fit everyone's needs.  How about we add a scaling factor that can be set in the INI file.  This can be set to yield the current inflated numbers by default, but can also be set to 1 for anyone wanting real numbers.

-Seth

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:50 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Send Opensim-dev mailing list submissions to
        [hidden email]

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
        http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
        [hidden email]

You can reach the person managing the list at
        [hidden email]

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Opensim-dev digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED) (Michael Emory Cerquoni)
   2. Re: MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED) (Michael Emory Cerquoni)
   3. Re: MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED) (Michael Emory Cerquoni)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 17:40:39 -0400
From: Michael Emory Cerquoni <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
Message-ID:
        <CAF5=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the white
space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later though. I
hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to really make
sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps before this changes
the core code, so anyone who has the time please do test this and let us
know if you notice anything change or break, thanks!

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces.  The patch should still
> apply and work.  We follows the open simulator patch creation guidance
> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want this
> done -
> let us know.  Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings.
>
> v/r -douglas
>
> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
> Science and Technology Manager
> Virtual World Strategic Applications
> U.S. Army Research Lab
> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC)
> (c) <a href="tel:%28407%29%20242-0209" value="+14072420209" target="_blank">(407) 242-0209
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael Emory
> Cerquoni
> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted
>
> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for testing,
> thanks
> guys!
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>
>         Opensim Devs
>
>         Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission from
> project
> MOSES.  Thanks.
>
>         --
>         Michael Heilmann
>         Research Associate
>         Institute for Simulation and Training
>         University of Central Florida
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         Opensim-dev mailing list
>         [hidden email]
>         http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> <blockedhttp://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>
> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>
>


--
Michael Emory Cerquoni
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 17:42:52 -0400
From: Michael Emory Cerquoni <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
Message-ID:
        <CAF5=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

ok so just so I understand we should now see this actually just display
11fps? Personally I think this is a bad idea, alot of people may be using
monitoring apps and scripts that look for low fps and restart the region,
we would basically be forcing everyone to rewrite a lot of code to
accommodate a singular purpose? Not quite sure how this improves the
project as a whole.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the
> white space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later
> though. I hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to
> really make sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps before
> this changes the core code, so anyone who has the time please do test this
> and let us know if you notice anything change or break, thanks!
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>> Caveats: NONE
>>
>> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces.  The patch should
>> still
>> apply and work.  We follows the open simulator patch creation guidance
>> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want this
>> done -
>> let us know.  Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings.
>>
>> v/r -douglas
>>
>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
>> Science and Technology Manager
>> Virtual World Strategic Applications
>> U.S. Army Research Lab
>> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC)
>> (c) <a href="tel:%28407%29%20242-0209" value="+14072420209" target="_blank">(407) 242-0209
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael Emory
>> Cerquoni
>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted
>>
>> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for testing,
>> thanks
>> guys!
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>         Opensim Devs
>>
>>         Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission from
>> project
>> MOSES.  Thanks.
>>
>>         --
>>         Michael Heilmann
>>         Research Associate
>>         Institute for Simulation and Training
>>         University of Central Florida
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         Opensim-dev mailing list
>>         [hidden email]
>>         http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>> <blockedhttp://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>>
>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>> Caveats: NONE
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>



--
Michael Emory Cerquoni
-------------- next part --------------
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 17:50:32 -0400
From: Michael Emory Cerquoni <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
Message-ID:
        <CAF5=rqWbXjfgv5Au9VDa+_b8AsvY4NpL2CFxY=4L=ncE=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I have to admit I am a bit bewildered at this patch, what is the actual
benefit of reporting the actual numbers if it has the potential to break so
much?  Can we rethink this and have this be a variable that can be
configured for different applications, I really hate the idea of forcing
this change on everyone without much better ability to explain why this is
so important, having it just go from 55fps to 11fps is going to freak
people out and cause a lot of problems for the core development support
teams.  To me it makes more sense to make the multiplication factor
configurable so that if a certain grid wants to run at normal stats they
can set the modifier to 1.0 if a certain grid wants to be an analogue of
second life they can change the modifier to 5.0, but if forcing everyone to
use this is the only option I have to say my vote is -1 for inclusion at
this point, unless someone can really convince me why this is so important
otherwise.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> ok so just so I understand we should now see this actually just display
> 11fps? Personally I think this is a bad idea, alot of people may be using
> monitoring apps and scripts that look for low fps and restart the region,
> we would basically be forcing everyone to rewrite a lot of code to
> accommodate a singular purpose? Not quite sure how this improves the
> project as a whole.
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the
>> white space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later
>> though. I hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to
>> really make sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps before
>> this changes the core code, so anyone who has the time please do test this
>> and let us know if you notice anything change or break, thanks!
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>>> Caveats: NONE
>>>
>>> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces.  The patch should
>>> still
>>> apply and work.  We follows the open simulator patch creation guidance
>>> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want this
>>> done -
>>> let us know.  Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings.
>>>
>>> v/r -douglas
>>>
>>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
>>> Science and Technology Manager
>>> Virtual World Strategic Applications
>>> U.S. Army Research Lab
>>> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC)
>>> (c) <a href="tel:%28407%29%20242-0209" value="+14072420209" target="_blank">(407) 242-0209
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [hidden email]
>>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael
>>> Emory
>>> Cerquoni
>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted
>>>
>>> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for testing,
>>> thanks
>>> guys!
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>         Opensim Devs
>>>
>>>         Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission from
>>> project
>>> MOSES.  Thanks.
>>>
>>>         --
>>>         Michael Heilmann
>>>         Research Associate
>>>         Institute for Simulation and Training
>>>         University of Central Florida
>>>
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>         Opensim-dev mailing list
>>>         [hidden email]
>>>         http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>> <blockedhttp://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>>>
>>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>>> Caveats: NONE
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>



--
Michael Emory Cerquoni
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------------------------------

_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev


End of Opensim-dev Digest, Vol 13, Issue 34
*******************************************


_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev




--
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_______________________________________________
Opensim-dev mailing list
[hidden email]
http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev

_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Opensim-dev Digest, Vol 13, Issue 34

Michael Emory Cerquoni
If the end result is breaking existing content and systems then yes to me it is preferable that a new project be started, however there is no reason you can not diverge and expand on top of existing code, but if you think its easier to fork then by all means good luck.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 6:51 PM, Frank Nichols <[hidden email]> wrote:
Then basically we can never diverge away from SL since any divergence is going to break existing scripts that require compatibility. 

If we don't bite the bullet and make the changes, i do believe OS will (has?) stagnate. It seems every time outside resources try to make changes and help we end up back at the argument that too much legacy code will have to be rewritten.  I suggest that we "fork" core, in essence. By this i mean we have a switch in core, SL COMPATIBILITY MODE. switch equals true and it runs the code as it is, switch equals FALSE and it runs a new code base with changes. Default can be true. I then suggest we focus future development on the new branch that is not compatible.

Frank 

Sent from my iPad Air 2

On Apr 24, 2015, at 6:00 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <[hidden email]> wrote:

I am all for diverging away from SL, but not at the expense of breaking existing systems or content, because ultimately its the core development team who has to deal with the fall out of that.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:57 PM, Seth Nygard <[hidden email]> wrote:
I am in full support of showing the actual numbers for all system metrics.  It is long past time we dispensed with trying to be like SL when we are not in so many ways already.

What I would suggest as a solution that should fit everyone's needs.  How about we add a scaling factor that can be set in the INI file.  This can be set to yield the current inflated numbers by default, but can also be set to 1 for anyone wanting real numbers.

-Seth

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:50 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Send Opensim-dev mailing list submissions to
        [hidden email]

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
        http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
        [hidden email]

You can reach the person managing the list at
        [hidden email]

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Opensim-dev digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED) (Michael Emory Cerquoni)
   2. Re: MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED) (Michael Emory Cerquoni)
   3. Re: MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED) (Michael Emory Cerquoni)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 17:40:39 -0400
From: Michael Emory Cerquoni <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
Message-ID:
        <CAF5=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the white
space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later though. I
hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to really make
sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps before this changes
the core code, so anyone who has the time please do test this and let us
know if you notice anything change or break, thanks!

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces.  The patch should still
> apply and work.  We follows the open simulator patch creation guidance
> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want this
> done -
> let us know.  Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings.
>
> v/r -douglas
>
> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
> Science and Technology Manager
> Virtual World Strategic Applications
> U.S. Army Research Lab
> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC)
> (c) <a href="tel:%28407%29%20242-0209" value="+14072420209" target="_blank">(407) 242-0209
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael Emory
> Cerquoni
> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted
>
> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for testing,
> thanks
> guys!
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>
>         Opensim Devs
>
>         Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission from
> project
> MOSES.  Thanks.
>
>         --
>         Michael Heilmann
>         Research Associate
>         Institute for Simulation and Training
>         University of Central Florida
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         Opensim-dev mailing list
>         [hidden email]
>         http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> <blockedhttp://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>
> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>
>


--
Michael Emory Cerquoni
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 17:42:52 -0400
From: Michael Emory Cerquoni <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
Message-ID:
        <CAF5=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

ok so just so I understand we should now see this actually just display
11fps? Personally I think this is a bad idea, alot of people may be using
monitoring apps and scripts that look for low fps and restart the region,
we would basically be forcing everyone to rewrite a lot of code to
accommodate a singular purpose? Not quite sure how this improves the
project as a whole.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the
> white space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later
> though. I hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to
> really make sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps before
> this changes the core code, so anyone who has the time please do test this
> and let us know if you notice anything change or break, thanks!
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>> Caveats: NONE
>>
>> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces.  The patch should
>> still
>> apply and work.  We follows the open simulator patch creation guidance
>> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want this
>> done -
>> let us know.  Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings.
>>
>> v/r -douglas
>>
>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
>> Science and Technology Manager
>> Virtual World Strategic Applications
>> U.S. Army Research Lab
>> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC)
>> (c) <a href="tel:%28407%29%20242-0209" value="+14072420209" target="_blank">(407) 242-0209
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael Emory
>> Cerquoni
>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted
>>
>> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for testing,
>> thanks
>> guys!
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>         Opensim Devs
>>
>>         Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission from
>> project
>> MOSES.  Thanks.
>>
>>         --
>>         Michael Heilmann
>>         Research Associate
>>         Institute for Simulation and Training
>>         University of Central Florida
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         Opensim-dev mailing list
>>         [hidden email]
>>         http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>> <blockedhttp://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>>
>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>> Caveats: NONE
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>



--
Michael Emory Cerquoni
-------------- next part --------------
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 17:50:32 -0400
From: Michael Emory Cerquoni <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
Message-ID:
        <CAF5=rqWbXjfgv5Au9VDa+_b8AsvY4NpL2CFxY=4L=ncE=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I have to admit I am a bit bewildered at this patch, what is the actual
benefit of reporting the actual numbers if it has the potential to break so
much?  Can we rethink this and have this be a variable that can be
configured for different applications, I really hate the idea of forcing
this change on everyone without much better ability to explain why this is
so important, having it just go from 55fps to 11fps is going to freak
people out and cause a lot of problems for the core development support
teams.  To me it makes more sense to make the multiplication factor
configurable so that if a certain grid wants to run at normal stats they
can set the modifier to 1.0 if a certain grid wants to be an analogue of
second life they can change the modifier to 5.0, but if forcing everyone to
use this is the only option I have to say my vote is -1 for inclusion at
this point, unless someone can really convince me why this is so important
otherwise.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> ok so just so I understand we should now see this actually just display
> 11fps? Personally I think this is a bad idea, alot of people may be using
> monitoring apps and scripts that look for low fps and restart the region,
> we would basically be forcing everyone to rewrite a lot of code to
> accommodate a singular purpose? Not quite sure how this improves the
> project as a whole.
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the
>> white space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later
>> though. I hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to
>> really make sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps before
>> this changes the core code, so anyone who has the time please do test this
>> and let us know if you notice anything change or break, thanks!
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>>> Caveats: NONE
>>>
>>> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces.  The patch should
>>> still
>>> apply and work.  We follows the open simulator patch creation guidance
>>> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want this
>>> done -
>>> let us know.  Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings.
>>>
>>> v/r -douglas
>>>
>>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
>>> Science and Technology Manager
>>> Virtual World Strategic Applications
>>> U.S. Army Research Lab
>>> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC)
>>> (c) <a href="tel:%28407%29%20242-0209" value="+14072420209" target="_blank">(407) 242-0209
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [hidden email]
>>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael
>>> Emory
>>> Cerquoni
>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted
>>>
>>> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for testing,
>>> thanks
>>> guys!
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>         Opensim Devs
>>>
>>>         Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission from
>>> project
>>> MOSES.  Thanks.
>>>
>>>         --
>>>         Michael Heilmann
>>>         Research Associate
>>>         Institute for Simulation and Training
>>>         University of Central Florida
>>>
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>         Opensim-dev mailing list
>>>         [hidden email]
>>>         http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>> <blockedhttp://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>>>
>>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>>> Caveats: NONE
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>



--
Michael Emory Cerquoni
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End of Opensim-dev Digest, Vol 13, Issue 34
*******************************************


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Re: Opensim-dev Digest, Vol 13, Issue 34

Frank Nichols
I think you missed my point, i suggested that core support both with a switch in the .ini The fork, would be internal not external.

Sent from my iPad Air 2

On Apr 24, 2015, at 6:54 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <[hidden email]> wrote:

If the end result is breaking existing content and systems then yes to me it is preferable that a new project be started, however there is no reason you can not diverge and expand on top of existing code, but if you think its easier to fork then by all means good luck.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 6:51 PM, Frank Nichols <[hidden email]> wrote:
Then basically we can never diverge away from SL since any divergence is going to break existing scripts that require compatibility. 

If we don't bite the bullet and make the changes, i do believe OS will (has?) stagnate. It seems every time outside resources try to make changes and help we end up back at the argument that too much legacy code will have to be rewritten.  I suggest that we "fork" core, in essence. By this i mean we have a switch in core, SL COMPATIBILITY MODE. switch equals true and it runs the code as it is, switch equals FALSE and it runs a new code base with changes. Default can be true. I then suggest we focus future development on the new branch that is not compatible.

Frank 

Sent from my iPad Air 2

On Apr 24, 2015, at 6:00 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <[hidden email]> wrote:

I am all for diverging away from SL, but not at the expense of breaking existing systems or content, because ultimately its the core development team who has to deal with the fall out of that.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:57 PM, Seth Nygard <[hidden email]> wrote:
I am in full support of showing the actual numbers for all system metrics.  It is long past time we dispensed with trying to be like SL when we are not in so many ways already.

What I would suggest as a solution that should fit everyone's needs.  How about we add a scaling factor that can be set in the INI file.  This can be set to yield the current inflated numbers by default, but can also be set to 1 for anyone wanting real numbers.

-Seth

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:50 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Send Opensim-dev mailing list submissions to
        [hidden email]

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
        http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
        [hidden email]

You can reach the person managing the list at
        [hidden email]

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Opensim-dev digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED) (Michael Emory Cerquoni)
   2. Re: MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED) (Michael Emory Cerquoni)
   3. Re: MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED) (Michael Emory Cerquoni)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 17:40:39 -0400
From: Michael Emory Cerquoni <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
Message-ID:
        <CAF5=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the white
space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later though. I
hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to really make
sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps before this changes
the core code, so anyone who has the time please do test this and let us
know if you notice anything change or break, thanks!

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces.  The patch should still
> apply and work.  We follows the open simulator patch creation guidance
> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want this
> done -
> let us know.  Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings.
>
> v/r -douglas
>
> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
> Science and Technology Manager
> Virtual World Strategic Applications
> U.S. Army Research Lab
> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC)
> (c) <a href="tel:%28407%29%20242-0209" value="+14072420209" target="_blank">(407) 242-0209
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael Emory
> Cerquoni
> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted
>
> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for testing,
> thanks
> guys!
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>
>         Opensim Devs
>
>         Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission from
> project
> MOSES.  Thanks.
>
>         --
>         Michael Heilmann
>         Research Associate
>         Institute for Simulation and Training
>         University of Central Florida
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         Opensim-dev mailing list
>         [hidden email]
>         http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> <blockedhttp://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>
> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>
>


--
Michael Emory Cerquoni
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 17:42:52 -0400
From: Michael Emory Cerquoni <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
Message-ID:
        <CAF5=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

ok so just so I understand we should now see this actually just display
11fps? Personally I think this is a bad idea, alot of people may be using
monitoring apps and scripts that look for low fps and restart the region,
we would basically be forcing everyone to rewrite a lot of code to
accommodate a singular purpose? Not quite sure how this improves the
project as a whole.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the
> white space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later
> though. I hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to
> really make sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps before
> this changes the core code, so anyone who has the time please do test this
> and let us know if you notice anything change or break, thanks!
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>> Caveats: NONE
>>
>> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces.  The patch should
>> still
>> apply and work.  We follows the open simulator patch creation guidance
>> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want this
>> done -
>> let us know.  Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings.
>>
>> v/r -douglas
>>
>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
>> Science and Technology Manager
>> Virtual World Strategic Applications
>> U.S. Army Research Lab
>> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC)
>> (c) <a href="tel:%28407%29%20242-0209" value="+14072420209" target="_blank">(407) 242-0209
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael Emory
>> Cerquoni
>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted
>>
>> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for testing,
>> thanks
>> guys!
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>         Opensim Devs
>>
>>         Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission from
>> project
>> MOSES.  Thanks.
>>
>>         --
>>         Michael Heilmann
>>         Research Associate
>>         Institute for Simulation and Training
>>         University of Central Florida
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         Opensim-dev mailing list
>>         [hidden email]
>>         http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>> <blockedhttp://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>>
>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>> Caveats: NONE
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>



--
Michael Emory Cerquoni
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 17:50:32 -0400
From: Michael Emory Cerquoni <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
Message-ID:
        <CAF5=rqWbXjfgv5Au9VDa+_b8AsvY4NpL2CFxY=4L=ncE=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I have to admit I am a bit bewildered at this patch, what is the actual
benefit of reporting the actual numbers if it has the potential to break so
much?  Can we rethink this and have this be a variable that can be
configured for different applications, I really hate the idea of forcing
this change on everyone without much better ability to explain why this is
so important, having it just go from 55fps to 11fps is going to freak
people out and cause a lot of problems for the core development support
teams.  To me it makes more sense to make the multiplication factor
configurable so that if a certain grid wants to run at normal stats they
can set the modifier to 1.0 if a certain grid wants to be an analogue of
second life they can change the modifier to 5.0, but if forcing everyone to
use this is the only option I have to say my vote is -1 for inclusion at
this point, unless someone can really convince me why this is so important
otherwise.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> ok so just so I understand we should now see this actually just display
> 11fps? Personally I think this is a bad idea, alot of people may be using
> monitoring apps and scripts that look for low fps and restart the region,
> we would basically be forcing everyone to rewrite a lot of code to
> accommodate a singular purpose? Not quite sure how this improves the
> project as a whole.
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the
>> white space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later
>> though. I hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to
>> really make sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps before
>> this changes the core code, so anyone who has the time please do test this
>> and let us know if you notice anything change or break, thanks!
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>>> Caveats: NONE
>>>
>>> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces.  The patch should
>>> still
>>> apply and work.  We follows the open simulator patch creation guidance
>>> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want this
>>> done -
>>> let us know.  Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings.
>>>
>>> v/r -douglas
>>>
>>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
>>> Science and Technology Manager
>>> Virtual World Strategic Applications
>>> U.S. Army Research Lab
>>> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC)
>>> (c) <a href="tel:%28407%29%20242-0209" value="+14072420209" target="_blank">(407) 242-0209
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [hidden email]
>>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael
>>> Emory
>>> Cerquoni
>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted
>>>
>>> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for testing,
>>> thanks
>>> guys!
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>         Opensim Devs
>>>
>>>         Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission from
>>> project
>>> MOSES.  Thanks.
>>>
>>>         --
>>>         Michael Heilmann
>>>         Research Associate
>>>         Institute for Simulation and Training
>>>         University of Central Florida
>>>
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>         Opensim-dev mailing list
>>>         [hidden email]
>>>         http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>> <blockedhttp://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>>>
>>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>>> Caveats: NONE
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>



--
Michael Emory Cerquoni
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End of Opensim-dev Digest, Vol 13, Issue 34
*******************************************


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--
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[hidden email]
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--
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Re: Opensim-dev Digest, Vol 13, Issue 34

Dahlia Trimble
In reply to this post by Frank Nichols
If anyone here is willing to help with maintaining ever increasingly complex code and supporting users, feel free to chip in. Talk is cheap.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:51 PM, Frank Nichols <[hidden email]> wrote:
Then basically we can never diverge away from SL since any divergence is going to break existing scripts that require compatibility. 

If we don't bite the bullet and make the changes, i do believe OS will (has?) stagnate. It seems every time outside resources try to make changes and help we end up back at the argument that too much legacy code will have to be rewritten.  I suggest that we "fork" core, in essence. By this i mean we have a switch in core, SL COMPATIBILITY MODE. switch equals true and it runs the code as it is, switch equals FALSE and it runs a new code base with changes. Default can be true. I then suggest we focus future development on the new branch that is not compatible.

Frank 

Sent from my iPad Air 2

On Apr 24, 2015, at 6:00 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <[hidden email]> wrote:

I am all for diverging away from SL, but not at the expense of breaking existing systems or content, because ultimately its the core development team who has to deal with the fall out of that.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:57 PM, Seth Nygard <[hidden email]> wrote:
I am in full support of showing the actual numbers for all system metrics.  It is long past time we dispensed with trying to be like SL when we are not in so many ways already.

What I would suggest as a solution that should fit everyone's needs.  How about we add a scaling factor that can be set in the INI file.  This can be set to yield the current inflated numbers by default, but can also be set to 1 for anyone wanting real numbers.

-Seth

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:50 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Send Opensim-dev mailing list submissions to
        [hidden email]

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
        http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
        [hidden email]

You can reach the person managing the list at
        [hidden email]

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Opensim-dev digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED) (Michael Emory Cerquoni)
   2. Re: MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED) (Michael Emory Cerquoni)
   3. Re: MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED) (Michael Emory Cerquoni)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 17:40:39 -0400
From: Michael Emory Cerquoni <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
Message-ID:
        <CAF5=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the white
space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later though. I
hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to really make
sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps before this changes
the core code, so anyone who has the time please do test this and let us
know if you notice anything change or break, thanks!

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces.  The patch should still
> apply and work.  We follows the open simulator patch creation guidance
> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want this
> done -
> let us know.  Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings.
>
> v/r -douglas
>
> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
> Science and Technology Manager
> Virtual World Strategic Applications
> U.S. Army Research Lab
> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC)
> (c) <a href="tel:%28407%29%20242-0209" value="+14072420209" target="_blank">(407) 242-0209
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael Emory
> Cerquoni
> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted
>
> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for testing,
> thanks
> guys!
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>
>         Opensim Devs
>
>         Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission from
> project
> MOSES.  Thanks.
>
>         --
>         Michael Heilmann
>         Research Associate
>         Institute for Simulation and Training
>         University of Central Florida
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         Opensim-dev mailing list
>         [hidden email]
>         http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> <blockedhttp://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>
> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>
>


--
Michael Emory Cerquoni
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 17:42:52 -0400
From: Michael Emory Cerquoni <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
Message-ID:
        <CAF5=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

ok so just so I understand we should now see this actually just display
11fps? Personally I think this is a bad idea, alot of people may be using
monitoring apps and scripts that look for low fps and restart the region,
we would basically be forcing everyone to rewrite a lot of code to
accommodate a singular purpose? Not quite sure how this improves the
project as a whole.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the
> white space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later
> though. I hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to
> really make sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps before
> this changes the core code, so anyone who has the time please do test this
> and let us know if you notice anything change or break, thanks!
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>> Caveats: NONE
>>
>> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces.  The patch should
>> still
>> apply and work.  We follows the open simulator patch creation guidance
>> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want this
>> done -
>> let us know.  Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings.
>>
>> v/r -douglas
>>
>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
>> Science and Technology Manager
>> Virtual World Strategic Applications
>> U.S. Army Research Lab
>> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC)
>> (c) <a href="tel:%28407%29%20242-0209" value="+14072420209" target="_blank">(407) 242-0209
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael Emory
>> Cerquoni
>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted
>>
>> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for testing,
>> thanks
>> guys!
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>         Opensim Devs
>>
>>         Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission from
>> project
>> MOSES.  Thanks.
>>
>>         --
>>         Michael Heilmann
>>         Research Associate
>>         Institute for Simulation and Training
>>         University of Central Florida
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         Opensim-dev mailing list
>>         [hidden email]
>>         http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>> <blockedhttp://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>>
>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>> Caveats: NONE
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>



--
Michael Emory Cerquoni
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 17:50:32 -0400
From: Michael Emory Cerquoni <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
Message-ID:
        <CAF5=rqWbXjfgv5Au9VDa+_b8AsvY4NpL2CFxY=4L=ncE=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I have to admit I am a bit bewildered at this patch, what is the actual
benefit of reporting the actual numbers if it has the potential to break so
much?  Can we rethink this and have this be a variable that can be
configured for different applications, I really hate the idea of forcing
this change on everyone without much better ability to explain why this is
so important, having it just go from 55fps to 11fps is going to freak
people out and cause a lot of problems for the core development support
teams.  To me it makes more sense to make the multiplication factor
configurable so that if a certain grid wants to run at normal stats they
can set the modifier to 1.0 if a certain grid wants to be an analogue of
second life they can change the modifier to 5.0, but if forcing everyone to
use this is the only option I have to say my vote is -1 for inclusion at
this point, unless someone can really convince me why this is so important
otherwise.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> ok so just so I understand we should now see this actually just display
> 11fps? Personally I think this is a bad idea, alot of people may be using
> monitoring apps and scripts that look for low fps and restart the region,
> we would basically be forcing everyone to rewrite a lot of code to
> accommodate a singular purpose? Not quite sure how this improves the
> project as a whole.
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the
>> white space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later
>> though. I hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to
>> really make sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps before
>> this changes the core code, so anyone who has the time please do test this
>> and let us know if you notice anything change or break, thanks!
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>>> Caveats: NONE
>>>
>>> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces.  The patch should
>>> still
>>> apply and work.  We follows the open simulator patch creation guidance
>>> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want this
>>> done -
>>> let us know.  Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings.
>>>
>>> v/r -douglas
>>>
>>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
>>> Science and Technology Manager
>>> Virtual World Strategic Applications
>>> U.S. Army Research Lab
>>> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC)
>>> (c) <a href="tel:%28407%29%20242-0209" value="+14072420209" target="_blank">(407) 242-0209
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [hidden email]
>>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael
>>> Emory
>>> Cerquoni
>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted
>>>
>>> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for testing,
>>> thanks
>>> guys!
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>         Opensim Devs
>>>
>>>         Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission from
>>> project
>>> MOSES.  Thanks.
>>>
>>>         --
>>>         Michael Heilmann
>>>         Research Associate
>>>         Institute for Simulation and Training
>>>         University of Central Florida
>>>
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>         Opensim-dev mailing list
>>>         [hidden email]
>>>         http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>> <blockedhttp://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>>>
>>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>>> Caveats: NONE
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>



--
Michael Emory Cerquoni
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End of Opensim-dev Digest, Vol 13, Issue 34
*******************************************


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Re: Opensim-dev Digest, Vol 13, Issue 34

James Nichols
It would seem Moses is trying to help with the code.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 7:53 PM, Dahlia Trimble <[hidden email]> wrote:
If anyone here is willing to help with maintaining ever increasingly complex code and supporting users, feel free to chip in. Talk is cheap.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:51 PM, Frank Nichols <[hidden email]> wrote:
Then basically we can never diverge away from SL since any divergence is going to break existing scripts that require compatibility. 

If we don't bite the bullet and make the changes, i do believe OS will (has?) stagnate. It seems every time outside resources try to make changes and help we end up back at the argument that too much legacy code will have to be rewritten.  I suggest that we "fork" core, in essence. By this i mean we have a switch in core, SL COMPATIBILITY MODE. switch equals true and it runs the code as it is, switch equals FALSE and it runs a new code base with changes. Default can be true. I then suggest we focus future development on the new branch that is not compatible.

Frank 

Sent from my iPad Air 2

On Apr 24, 2015, at 6:00 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <[hidden email]> wrote:

I am all for diverging away from SL, but not at the expense of breaking existing systems or content, because ultimately its the core development team who has to deal with the fall out of that.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:57 PM, Seth Nygard <[hidden email]> wrote:
I am in full support of showing the actual numbers for all system metrics.  It is long past time we dispensed with trying to be like SL when we are not in so many ways already.

What I would suggest as a solution that should fit everyone's needs.  How about we add a scaling factor that can be set in the INI file.  This can be set to yield the current inflated numbers by default, but can also be set to 1 for anyone wanting real numbers.

-Seth

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:50 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
Send Opensim-dev mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Opensim-dev digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED) (Michael Emory Cerquoni)
   2. Re: MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED) (Michael Emory Cerquoni)
   3. Re: MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED) (Michael Emory Cerquoni)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 17:40:39 -0400
From: Michael Emory Cerquoni <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
Message-ID:
        <CAF5=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the white
space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later though. I
hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to really make
sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps before this changes
the core code, so anyone who has the time please do test this and let us
know if you notice anything change or break, thanks!

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces.  The patch should still
> apply and work.  We follows the open simulator patch creation guidance
> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want this
> done -
> let us know.  Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings.
>
> v/r -douglas
>
> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
> Science and Technology Manager
> Virtual World Strategic Applications
> U.S. Army Research Lab
> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC)
> (c) <a href="tel:%28407%29%20242-0209" value="+14072420209" target="_blank">(407) 242-0209
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael Emory
> Cerquoni
> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted
>
> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for testing,
> thanks
> guys!
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>
>         Opensim Devs
>
>         Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission from
> project
> MOSES.  Thanks.
>
>         --
>         Michael Heilmann
>         Research Associate
>         Institute for Simulation and Training
>         University of Central Florida
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         Opensim-dev mailing list
>         [hidden email]
>         http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> <blockedhttp://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>
> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>
>


--
Michael Emory Cerquoni
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 17:42:52 -0400
From: Michael Emory Cerquoni <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
Message-ID:
        <CAF5=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

ok so just so I understand we should now see this actually just display
11fps? Personally I think this is a bad idea, alot of people may be using
monitoring apps and scripts that look for low fps and restart the region,
we would basically be forcing everyone to rewrite a lot of code to
accommodate a singular purpose? Not quite sure how this improves the
project as a whole.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the
> white space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later
> though. I hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to
> really make sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps before
> this changes the core code, so anyone who has the time please do test this
> and let us know if you notice anything change or break, thanks!
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>> Caveats: NONE
>>
>> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces.  The patch should
>> still
>> apply and work.  We follows the open simulator patch creation guidance
>> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want this
>> done -
>> let us know.  Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings.
>>
>> v/r -douglas
>>
>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
>> Science and Technology Manager
>> Virtual World Strategic Applications
>> U.S. Army Research Lab
>> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC)
>> (c) <a href="tel:%28407%29%20242-0209" value="+14072420209" target="_blank">(407) 242-0209
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael Emory
>> Cerquoni
>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted
>>
>> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for testing,
>> thanks
>> guys!
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>         Opensim Devs
>>
>>         Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission from
>> project
>> MOSES.  Thanks.
>>
>>         --
>>         Michael Heilmann
>>         Research Associate
>>         Institute for Simulation and Training
>>         University of Central Florida
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         Opensim-dev mailing list
>>         [hidden email]
>>         http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>> <blockedhttp://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>>
>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>> Caveats: NONE
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>



--
Michael Emory Cerquoni
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2015 17:50:32 -0400
From: Michael Emory Cerquoni <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
Message-ID:
        <CAF5=rqWbXjfgv5Au9VDa+_b8AsvY4NpL2CFxY=4L=ncE=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I have to admit I am a bit bewildered at this patch, what is the actual
benefit of reporting the actual numbers if it has the potential to break so
much?  Can we rethink this and have this be a variable that can be
configured for different applications, I really hate the idea of forcing
this change on everyone without much better ability to explain why this is
so important, having it just go from 55fps to 11fps is going to freak
people out and cause a lot of problems for the core development support
teams.  To me it makes more sense to make the multiplication factor
configurable so that if a certain grid wants to run at normal stats they
can set the modifier to 1.0 if a certain grid wants to be an analogue of
second life they can change the modifier to 5.0, but if forcing everyone to
use this is the only option I have to say my vote is -1 for inclusion at
this point, unless someone can really convince me why this is so important
otherwise.

On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> ok so just so I understand we should now see this actually just display
> 11fps? Personally I think this is a bad idea, alot of people may be using
> monitoring apps and scripts that look for low fps and restart the region,
> we would basically be forcing everyone to rewrite a lot of code to
> accommodate a singular purpose? Not quite sure how this improves the
> project as a whole.
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the
>> white space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later
>> though. I hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to
>> really make sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps before
>> this changes the core code, so anyone who has the time please do test this
>> and let us know if you notice anything change or break, thanks!
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>>> Caveats: NONE
>>>
>>> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces.  The patch should
>>> still
>>> apply and work.  We follows the open simulator patch creation guidance
>>> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want this
>>> done -
>>> let us know.  Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings.
>>>
>>> v/r -douglas
>>>
>>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
>>> Science and Technology Manager
>>> Virtual World Strategic Applications
>>> U.S. Army Research Lab
>>> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC)
>>> (c) <a href="tel:%28407%29%20242-0209" value="+14072420209" target="_blank">(407) 242-0209
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [hidden email]
>>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael
>>> Emory
>>> Cerquoni
>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted
>>>
>>> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for testing,
>>> thanks
>>> guys!
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>         Opensim Devs
>>>
>>>         Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission from
>>> project
>>> MOSES.  Thanks.
>>>
>>>         --
>>>         Michael Heilmann
>>>         Research Associate
>>>         Institute for Simulation and Training
>>>         University of Central Florida
>>>
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>         Opensim-dev mailing list
>>>         [hidden email]
>>>         http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>> <blockedhttp://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>>>
>>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>>> Caveats: NONE
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>



--
Michael Emory Cerquoni
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Re: Opensim-dev Digest, Vol 13, Issue 34

M.E. Verhagen
+1 for new metriics.

I just don't see the use of inflating numbers to fool people in thinking they get something better than they in fact get. 

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Re: Opensim-dev Digest, Vol 13, Issue 34

Shaun T. Erickson
+1 for *accurate* metrics.

On 4/25/15 7:20 PM, M.E. Verhagen wrote:
> +1 for new metriics.
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Re: Opensim-dev Digest, Vol 13, Issue 34

Zadark Portal
+1 for proposed metrics

On 26 April 2015 at 00:54, Shaun T. Erickson <[hidden email]> wrote:
+1 for *accurate* metrics.

On 4/25/15 7:20 PM, M.E. Verhagen wrote:
+1 for new metriics.
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