Re: new Mono

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Re: new Mono

Mo Hax
So where does Mono 2.2 fit with OpenSim, is that version now supported by the recent OpenSim commits?

Just wondering if I can use C# 3.0 syntax elements in it.

On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:35 PM, Eugen Leitl <[hidden email]> wrote:

http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2009/Jan-20-1.html

...


Mono's new engine generates much better code than the version found in Mono 2.0.

Speed: The engine will mostly benefit computationally intensive code, usually between 10% and 30% performance increase, with some cases going up as high as being 50% faster.

Code size: the new engine generates slimmer code, typically 12% to 20% smaller code generated.

Check out some of the benchmark results.

...

SIMD

Using SIMD for accelerating certain floating point operations had been in the back of our minds for a while. We looked into implementing that in our old engine, but that turned out to be very difficult.

With the new engine, Rodrigo was able to put together a prototype in a weekend (the legend goes that Rodrigo's wife was busy that weekend).

This prototype was later turned into Mono.SIMD an API for accelerating vector operations.

Mono 2.2 is the first release to officially support and distribute it. To learn more about Mono.SIMD support, you can see this blog entry.

...

--
Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org">leitl</a> http://leitl.org
______________________________________________________________
ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org
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Mo Hax
http://imohax.com

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Re: new Mono

Sean Dague-2
Mo Hax wrote:
> So where does Mono 2.2 fit with OpenSim, is that version now supported by
> the recent OpenSim commits?
>
> Just wondering if I can use C# 3.0 syntax elements in it.

I'm now running 2.2 in my environments, and life is pretty good with it.
 As we've not yet cut off people with mono < 2.0 we need to stay with C#
2.0 syntax.  I expect that will change this summer, after all the Linux
distros are shipping mono >= 2.0.

        -Sean

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Re: new Mono

Charles Krinke-3
+1 Sean. And to add, most of the testers are using mono-2.0.1 currently. That is, those that are testing with svn trunk.

Everytime we update mono, there is a period of trauma, so we are trying to move as fast as practical, but consider the fact that there are thousands of deployments of OpenSim regions so we want to do this deliberately.

Charles


From: Sean Dague <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 12:06:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] new Mono

Mo Hax wrote:
> So where does Mono 2.2 fit with OpenSim, is that version now supported by
> the recent OpenSim commits?
>
> Just wondering if I can use C# 3.0 syntax elements in it.

I'm now running 2.2 in my environments, and life is pretty good with it.
As we've not yet cut off people with mono < 2.0 we need to stay with C#
2.0 syntax.  I expect that will change this summer, after all the Linux
distros are shipping mono >= 2.0.

    -Sean

--
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[hidden email]
http://dague.net



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Re: new Mono

Paul Fishwick
Is this newer version of Mono available in binary without having to compile?
I see to recall Ubuntu 8.10 coming with an older version.
-p

Charles Krinke wrote:

> +1 Sean. And to add, most of the testers are using mono-2.0.1
> currently. That is, those that are testing with svn trunk.
>
> Everytime we update mono, there is a period of trauma, so we are
> trying to move as fast as practical, but consider the fact that there
> are thousands of deployments of OpenSim regions so we want to do this
> deliberately.
>
> Charles
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Sean Dague <[hidden email]>
> *To:* [hidden email]
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 22, 2009 12:06:45 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-dev] new Mono
>
> Mo Hax wrote:
> > So where does Mono 2.2 fit with OpenSim, is that version now
> supported by
> > the recent OpenSim commits?
> >
> > Just wondering if I can use C# 3.0 syntax elements in it.
>
> I'm now running 2.2 in my environments, and life is pretty good with it.
> As we've not yet cut off people with mono < 2.0 we need to stay with C#
> 2.0 syntax.  I expect that will change this summer, after all the Linux
> distros are shipping mono >= 2.0.
>
>     -Sean
>
> --
> Sean Dague / Neas Bade
> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> http://dague.net
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>  


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Dept. of Computer & Info       Phone & FAX: (352) 392-1414
 Science and Engineering       WWW: http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~fishwick
University of Florida          (PGP Key available at above WWW address)
P. O. Box 116120
332 Bldg. CSE, Gainesville, FL 32611-6120

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Re: new Mono

Charles Krinke-3

Actually, I just checked the mono-project.com web site and it looks like mono-2.2 has now been released in both source and some binaries.

So, ... If a couple of folks would like to become the guinea-testers with guinea-regions, this might be a good time.

Charles

p.s. The SecondLife.com official download is still 1.21.6, so the chant "1.21.6 --- 1.21.6 ---" is still valid.


From: Paul Fishwick <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 12:52:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] new Mono

Is this newer version of Mono available in binary without having to compile?
I see to recall Ubuntu 8.10 coming with an older version.
-p

Charles Krinke wrote:

> +1 Sean. And to add, most of the testers are using mono-2.0.1
> currently. That is, those that are testing with svn trunk.
>
> Everytime we update mono, there is a period of trauma, so we are
> trying to move as fast as practical, but consider the fact that there
> are thousands of deployments of OpenSim regions so we want to do this
> deliberately.
>
> Charles
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Sean Dague <[hidden email]>
> *To:* [hidden email]
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 22, 2009 12:06:45 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-dev] new Mono
>
> Mo Hax wrote:
> > So where does Mono 2.2 fit with OpenSim, is that version now
> supported by
> > the recent OpenSim commits?
> >
> > Just wondering if I can use C# 3.0 syntax elements in it.
>
> I'm now running 2.2 in my environments, and life is pretty good with it.
> As we've not yet cut off people with mono < 2.0 we need to stay with C#
> 2.0 syntax.  I expect that will change this summer, after all the Linux
> distros are shipping mono >= 2.0.
>
>    -Sean
>
> --
> Sean Dague / Neas Bade
> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> http://dague.net
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev


--
Dr. Paul A. Fishwick          E-Mail: [hidden email]
Dept. of Computer & Info      Phone & FAX: (352) 392-1414
Science and Engineering      WWW: http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~fishwick
University of Florida          (PGP Key available at above WWW address)
P. O. Box 116120
332 Bldg. CSE, Gainesville, FL 32611-6120

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Re: new Mono

Dave Coyle
In reply to this post by Paul Fishwick
On 2009-01-22 15:52:20 -0500, [hidden email] wrote:
> Is this newer version of Mono available in binary without having to
> compile?  I see to recall Ubuntu 8.10 coming with an older version.

Ubuntu 8.04 == Mono 1.2.6
Ubuntu 8.10 == Mono 1.9.1
Ubuntu 9.04 == Mono 2.0.1

(what's in the official repos, anyway)

-Coyle
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Re: new Mono

Hurliman, John
In reply to this post by Sean Dague-2
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:opensim-dev-
> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sean Dague
> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 12:07 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] new Mono
>
> Mo Hax wrote:
>> So where does Mono 2.2 fit with OpenSim, is that version now
>> supported by the recent OpenSim commits?
>>
>> Just wondering if I can use C# 3.0 syntax elements in it.
>
> I'm now running 2.2 in my environments, and life is pretty good with
> it.
>  As we've not yet cut off people with mono < 2.0 we need to stay with
> C# 2.0 syntax.  I expect that will change this summer, after all the
> Linux distros are shipping mono >= 2.0.
>
>       -Sean
>
> --
> Sean Dague / Neas Bade
> [hidden email]
> http://dague.net
>

IIRC, Mono 1.2.6 supports a limited amount of .NET 3.0 syntax. Mono 1.9.1 was the first version to have a complete implementation of the language changes in .NET 3.0. Most of .NET 3.5 is not supported in Mono yet. Visual Studio 2005 is more of a support issue than Mono for .NET 3.0.

John
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Re: new Mono

Charles Krinke-3
In reply to this post by Dave Coyle
Thanks, Coyle:

This actually brings into the light one of our issues, and that is mono idiosyncracies versus OpenSim idiosyncracies.

Many folks have advanced their mono to mono-2.0.1. Most of those with 1.2.6 are having problems with reliability. Some of those with mono-1.9.1 are having problems. Some of the mono-2.0.1 binary compiled packages have problems and I think the Ubuntu may be one of them.

So, ... what some of us are recommending lately is to compile mono from source and if there are problems, compile with the large heap option.

Charles


From: Dave Coyle <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 2:24:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] new Mono

On 2009-01-22 15:52:20 -0500, [hidden email] wrote:
> Is this newer version of Mono available in binary without having to
> compile?  I see to recall Ubuntu 8.10 coming with an older version.

Ubuntu 8.04 == Mono 1.2.6
Ubuntu 8.10 == Mono 1.9.1
Ubuntu 9.04 == Mono 2.0.1

(what's in the official repos, anyway)

-Coyle
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Re: new Mono

Stefan Andersson
In reply to this post by Hurliman, John
> IIRC, Mono 1.2.6 supports a limited amount of .NET 3.0 syntax. Mono 1.9.1 was the first version to have a complete implementation of the language changes in .NET 3.0.
 
Not that I know anything about what versions of mono does what, but I was under the impression that .NET 3.0 was purely an API extension (the foundations) and didn't introduce language or syntax changes, but uses the 2.0 CLR - it was with .NET 3.5 that MS introduced C# 3.0, I believe.
 
> Most of .NET 3.5 is not supported in Mono yet. Visual Studio 2005 is more of a support issue than Mono for .NET 3.0.

"The Mono Compiler is considered feature complete for C# 3.0"
taken from
http://www.mono-project.com/CSharp_Compiler
which also lists the features introduced in C# 3.0 as "supported".
 
So, what we're saying here, I believe (again, I'm no mono guy) that we could use C# 3.0 syntactical features from some given release of mono, but still stay wary of the unsupported parts of the .NET API.
 
Could we not just
* Identify in what mono release C# 3.0 was considered syntactically feature complete, and use C# 3.0 syntax from there on
* say we just need to work together to not introduce any incompatible projects into OpenSim core until the mono people say so
 
Just trying to chip in,
/Stefan
 

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Re: new Mono

Teravus Ovares
One thing to note,

After we start using 3.0 syntax, we'll have to drop Visual Studio
2005, as it cannot compile 3.0 expressions.

Another thing that's important to note, Visual Studio 2008 will not
tell you if you're using something that will cause Visual Studio 2005
to break even if you set the target assembly version to 2.0.

Just adding more var(use Implicitly typed local variables) to the mix.

Best Regards

Teravus

On 1/23/09, Stefan Andersson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > IIRC, Mono 1.2.6 supports a limited amount of .NET 3.0 syntax. Mono 1.9.1
> was the first version to have a complete implementation of the language
> changes in .NET 3.0.
>
> Not that I know anything about what versions of mono does what, but I was
> under the impression that .NET 3.0 was purely an API extension (the
> foundations) and didn't introduce language or syntax changes, but uses the
> 2.0 CLR - it was with .NET 3.5 that MS introduced C# 3.0, I believe.
>
> > Most of .NET 3.5 is not supported in Mono yet. Visual Studio 2005 is more
> of a support issue than Mono for .NET 3.0.
>
> "The Mono Compiler is considered feature complete for C# 3.0"
> taken from
> http://www.mono-project.com/CSharp_Compiler
> which also lists the features introduced in C# 3.0 as "supported".
>
> So, what we're saying here, I believe (again, I'm no mono guy) that we could
> use C# 3.0 syntactical features from some given release of mono, but still
> stay wary of the unsupported parts of the .NET API.
>
> Could we not just
> * Identify in what mono release C# 3.0 was considered syntactically feature
> complete, and use C# 3.0 syntax from there on
> * say we just need to work together to not introduce any incompatible
> projects into OpenSim core until the mono people say so
>
> Just trying to chip in,
> /Stefan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>
>
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Re: new Mono

Chris Down
In reply to this post by Charles Krinke-3

> So, ... If a couple of folks would like to become the guinea-testers with
> guinea-regions, this might be a good time.
>
> Charles
>

I have been running opensim on mono2.2 for 24 hours on opensuse 11.0. No
crashes so far. However there is a start up problem if Hypergrid is set to
true. It looks like some sort of race condition on module load. I will get a
screen capture and post a Mantis.

Regards

Chris Down

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Re: new Mono

Hurliman, John
In reply to this post by Stefan Andersson
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:opensim-dev-
> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Stefan Andersson
> Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 12:54 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] new Mono
>
>> IIRC, Mono 1.2.6 supports a limited amount of .NET 3.0 syntax. Mono
> 1.9.1 was the first version to have a complete implementation of the
> language changes in .NET 3.0.
>
> Not that I know anything about what versions of mono does what, but I
> was under the impression that .NET 3.0 was purely an API extension
> (the
> foundations) and didn't introduce language or syntax changes, but uses
> the 2.0 CLR - it was with .NET 3.5 that MS introduced C# 3.0, I believe.
>

You're correct, I mixed the two up. (Clear explanation here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET_Framework#.NET_Framework_3.0.) The only desirable framework extension I've come across so far is the HashSet collection, the rest are language extensions.

>> Most of .NET 3.5 is not supported in Mono yet. Visual Studio 2005 is
> more of a support issue than Mono for .NET 3.0.
>
> "The Mono Compiler is considered feature complete for C# 3.0"
> taken from
> http://www.mono-project.com/CSharp_Compiler
> which also lists the features introduced in C# 3.0 as "supported".
>
> So, what we're saying here, I believe (again, I'm no mono guy) that we
> could use C# 3.0 syntactical features from some given release of mono,
> but still stay wary of the unsupported parts of the .NET API.
>
> Could we not just
> * Identify in what mono release C# 3.0 was considered syntactically
> feature complete, and use C# 3.0 syntax from there on
> * say we just need to work together to not introduce any incompatible
> projects into OpenSim core until the mono people say so
>
> Just trying to chip in,
> /Stefan
>

I think it's safe to assume that any new language extensions will be supported on all versions of Mono, except versions that no one should be running due to severe memory leak and threading problems (aka 1.2.x). The real issue as Teravus mentioned is whether Visual Studio 2005 should be kept as a valid platform. Since you can download VS2008 Express for free, we're really talking about people who have a professional or enterprise copy of VS2005 that haven't upgraded to VS2008 only. However, this is more people than you might think. We've had this same discussion for libopenmetaverse several times, and are still probably not going to officially switch until Q2 2009 at the earliest.

John
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Re: new Mono

Dirk Krause
In reply to this post by Paul Fishwick
Compiling is really not a problem, it only takes some time.

Just get this script:
  http://xyzzyxyzzy.net/2009/01/06/mono-20-build-script/
and there
  http://xyzzyxyzzy.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/mono-2-build1.sh


-----Urspr√ľngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Paul Fishwick
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. Januar 2009 21:52
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: Re: [Opensim-dev] new Mono

Is this newer version of Mono available in binary without having to compile?
I see to recall Ubuntu 8.10 coming with an older version.
-p

Charles Krinke wrote:

> +1 Sean. And to add, most of the testers are using mono-2.0.1
> currently. That is, those that are testing with svn trunk.
>
> Everytime we update mono, there is a period of trauma, so we are
> trying to move as fast as practical, but consider the fact that there
> are thousands of deployments of OpenSim regions so we want to do this
> deliberately.
>
> Charles
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Sean Dague <[hidden email]>
> *To:* [hidden email]
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 22, 2009 12:06:45 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-dev] new Mono
>
> Mo Hax wrote:
> > So where does Mono 2.2 fit with OpenSim, is that version now
> supported by
> > the recent OpenSim commits?
> >
> > Just wondering if I can use C# 3.0 syntax elements in it.
>
> I'm now running 2.2 in my environments, and life is pretty good with it.
> As we've not yet cut off people with mono < 2.0 we need to stay with C#
> 2.0 syntax.  I expect that will change this summer, after all the Linux
> distros are shipping mono >= 2.0.
>
>     -Sean
>
> --
> Sean Dague / Neas Bade
> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> http://dague.net
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-dev mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>  


--
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Dept. of Computer & Info       Phone & FAX: (352) 392-1414
 Science and Engineering       WWW: http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~fishwick
University of Florida          (PGP Key available at above WWW address)
P. O. Box 116120
332 Bldg. CSE, Gainesville, FL 32611-6120

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